Another HIPAA question

[sfd178]

Okay, from what I gathered just now from another post, my FD does not have to comply with the law. We are an ALS non-transporting Fire Dept. that does not bill for any services. I've been told by a few folks that we did not have to comply, but the city attorney is taking his sweet time in giving me his opinion of the law.

Kevin Fuller
Firemedic
EMS Coordinator
Saraland Fire, Alabama

[IAMedic]

If you do not bill, you do not have to comply. Yes, you are correct. Congrats!! lol :wink:

[smurfe]

I talked to our HIPAA guru Thursday and he says this is correct UNLESS: Your municipality also provides the EMS transport service. Example: I work for a 3rd service municipal EMS department. Our City fire department (a totally different department) has to comply with HIPAA since we are all covered under city charter so in the fine eyes of the law we are all for one and one for all. None of the Suburban Fire departments have to comply to HIPAA as they are not under the same city charter as us. Just another twist to the HIPAA saga.

So, your department is ALS non-transport and do not bill. If your transport agency is a private or hospital based and the hospital is a private entity meaning not city/county owned, then you do not fall under HIPAA.

I would still highly recommend that your department sort of go along with HIPAA in regards to confidentiality as you should do this anyway and still make every effort to protect the patients Protected Health Information (PHI). This is a way to ensure continued protection of patient info and shows your department goes above what is required to provide services to your citizens.

Smurfe :D

[sfd178]

Our transport services are privately owned and we have no "affiliation" with any of the hospitals that would require following the guidelines. And yes, we do everything we can already to protect the PHI of all of our patients. Thanks for the info.

Kevin

[smurfe]

sfd178, from what you describe then no, your department would not fall under the HIPAA umbrella.

Smurfe :D

[OARMedic]

Be weary! I checked with the Virginia Office of EMS website. They clarify HIPAA for VA providers. It states that providers of treatment fall under HIPAA. The reason is that if you were not covered under HIPAA, no info could be given when a patient is handed off to another provider, i.e. ALS intercept, hospital, air evac, etc. or you respond to a doctors office, etc . This is even if you are a first responder agency and licensed by the state as such. It has nothing to do with payment for services. I guess the point is, if your state EMS office says HIPAA applies, I would comply until they are proven wrong.

Question: If you CAN charge for services, BUT DON'T, does HIPAA apply to you??

[sfd178]

I've now received a letter from out city attorney stating that in his opinion and research into the law, we do not fall under the provisions of the law, unless we start charging for services. At least now any problems will fall back on him. I've covered myself.

[alsfirefighter]

OARmedic,

According to an article on JEMS online, information related to treatment isn't held accountable under HIPAA. So provider to provider is covered as well as if the name in broadcasted over the airwaves.

[Chaplain]

OARmedic,

According to an article on JEMS online, information related to treatment isn't held accountable under HIPAA. So provider to provider is covered as well as if the name in broad casted over the airwaves.

When we had our little HIPAA pow-wow they stated that even dispatch is not suppose to announce names over the airwaves, because of scanner land.

I would like to see this info in writing somewhere.

I will look for this article.

[btroutm]

IMO...If you have an alternate route of dispatching specific patient information, such as a paging system, then it would be inappropriate to state the PHI over the air. However, if the paging system is down or there is no alternative, then there is nothing wrong with stating a patient's name and complaint over the air. It is necessary to provide the responding crew with as much information as possible so they can respond to the correct location/patient and so they can mentally prepare for the call.

Bruce

[WELLAGEDEMT]

Brad? HIPAA MAN! judging from some of the responses, we are in violation of HIPAA when we are being paged. We are given the address and the CC ON OUR PAGE. Sometimes we are given the name on air, are we in violation of HIPAA? I really already know the answer but I wanted to make a statement about how this law can make someone think they are wrong, when they are not. IT'S THE PRIVACY BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR PATIENT. Certainly you can tell the recieving Dr. or Nurse about your patient, people involved with the care of that patient. Just don't be discussing the facts with the neighborhood. A little common sense goes a long way.

[IAMedic]

No, WellAged, we are not in violation because our dispatching center is operated by a Law Enforcement entity and they are not the ruled by the same governing body. HIPAA does not regulate LEO in our area.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

I knew I wasn't wrong, after all I learned from the MASTER and HIS knowledge of the HIPAA regulations. The only thing I don't understand is how some ambulance services charge and others do not. I thought It was SOP to be charged every time someone got a ride.. Probably just Showing my ignorance with all the different rules and squads SOPs. Sometime you'll have to enlighten me with a sit down conversation on this particular topic. :)

[IAMedic]

Sometime you'll have to enlighten me with a sit down conversation on this particular topic. :)

Anytime you'd like. :wink:

[smaycffd]

From what I have been taught, anything that you need from dispatch you can get over the air. PHI that you need from dispatch that is heard by scanner junkies is considered the same as other Pt's hearing triage information when you get to the ED. People will just hear some of it, and you cannot worry about wispering information or not telling RN's what they need to know if it is in the benifit of the pt to have it stated.

With all that stated, what btroutm said is probably the best. If you have alternate means of sending this info then I would use that. You know some lawyer will say why didn't you page it instead of broadcasting it? I'm sure most of you feel the same way about lawyers as I do.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

I would like to point out that some scanner junkies are going to be able to monitor any of your messages, radio, cell or whatever isn't in code. I know this because I had a scanner that would scan almost all of the frequencies used by radio and cell users. Random search of most designated frequencies usually will locate most conversations and they are no longer private. Some do not allow a lock on but you can still monitor until they quit talking and the scan resumes. I am not a scanner junkie, I will sometimes monitor the frequencies used by local law, fire and Ems. I used to be a "junkie" but don't have the interest anymore.

About HIPAA and these transmissions, Law enforcement agencies are not covered by the same rules as EMS providers. So when we are paged out the address, sometimes the name and usually the nature of the call will be provided and people with scanners will be able to monitor that information. In addition to that info, when we call back into the hospital with current information on patient, this can be monitored. We Just have to be careful with the information that we report on air or in person. It's a common sense situation. SOMEONE IS LISTENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need to advance communications technology and keep it affordable to provide the security factor.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

I had a partner on our squad recently tell me about a round she had with HIPAA and trying to locate a missing person. She related the details of how they went about searching abandoned farm places and along the river and how she tried calling our area hospitals to see if the missing person was there, of course they couldn't answer because of HIPAA regulations. It seems that only law enforcement, with proper identification, could ask and be answered. Sometimes this is a little ridiculous.!!!!!

[IAMedic]

The hospital was mistaken, WellAged.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

According to the person relating this incident, The hospital stated that due to HIPAA regulations,they could not give out information. after being told what was happening she was told that all they could do was follow HIPAA guidelines. As it turned out, he was in California.