Your opinion

[Firegirl444]

I know everyone here loves to share their opinions (doesn't everyone in EMS? :D ), and since I just left a very heated debate at the fire station, I figured I'd ask all you guys(and girls). We had just read the article about the EMT in Illinois who transported the drowning victim to the ED in an SUV, and everyone and their mother had an opinion on whether this was the right or wrong decision. What does everyone think?

[bigj164019]

Sorry, guess I am out of the loop and need the fulls story?!

[Rob1036]

Yeah, I haven't heard about this either. But.....If there was no other way to transport, and apparently the patient was a load and go, then I would think transport by SUV is ok. Whats the difference in a family member driving the pt to the ER in their geo? :D

[smurfe]

Gotta agree here, I need the story, mainly to see if I know the people since I am from Illinois LOL.

But seriously. Was it the EMT's family? Or was he just in the area, at a BBQ or something and just happened to be there? They might f known that it was gonna take an extended time for an ambulance to get there.

I once transported a level one trauma to the hospital in the back of my S-10 Blazer cause I know it was going to be 30-40 minutes for another ambulance to reach the scene and I could be at the hospital in 15 minutes. I had a fireman drive me and I jumped in the back with the patient. the seats folded down and the spine board fit fine. Took a D cylinder off the truck and off we went. I feel what I did at that time was totally appropriate.

Whenever these stories seem to circulate, there is usually some reason they happened and it is usually valid, but not always.

Smurfe :D

[emmit233]

While it was not "correct" we are talking about the life of a child in rural Illinois. I can not say I would not do the same thing... I wouldn't know till I was put in that position. :cry: I hope I am not.

[smurfe]

LOL: The story is on our site today! And I don't know the person, but I know the service. They were in my EMS system and I have quite a few friends for the ambulance service there. The FD is a separate entity in this town. The EMS is hospital based and were not ALS when I left Illinois. Here is the story:

The Clinton Fire Department took a child who drowned in Clinton Lake to the hospital in a sport utility vehicle, which was the wrong thing to do, the Illinois Department of Public Health said Wednesday.
Neither the department nor the emergency-medical technician who made the decision to take Austin Brown, 3, to Dr. John Warner Hospital in an SUV on Sept. 2 will be sanctioned.

The state agency announced its decision Wednesday.

Clinton fire officials defended EMT Ben Over's actions, saying the quick measures got the child to the hospital in less than five minutes.

"They (fire department officials) were told that the department cannot function as an emergency-medical services provider and that they cannot treat or transport patients," said state health department spokeswoman Tammy Leonard.

The fire department is not licensed to transport patients and would have to apply for such a license, she added. The department could not be fined because it does not currently hold a license, she said.

Over also will not be sanctioned, Leonard said, because he told the state he does not intend to work as an emergency-medical technician any longer.

Austin and his siblings, Christopher Hamm, 6, and Kyliegh Hamm, 23 months were trapped in a car that submerged around 8 p.m. Sept. 2 in Clinton Lake. Police pulled the children from the car as their mother, Amanda Hamm, 28, and her boyfriend, Maurice Lagrone Jr., 28, both of Clinton, watched.

The boys died at the Clinton hospital within a couple of hours of the accident. Their sister was transferred to OSF Saint Francis Medical Center in Peoria, where she died the next day.

Police continue to investigate the case.

Public health officials launched an investigation into the transportation issue Sept. 3 after they learned Austin had arrived at the hospital in a fire department SUV.

Christopher and Kyleigh went to the hospital in an ambulance, but a second ambulance was not expected to arrive at the scene for several more minutes, Clinton Fire Chief Jeff Pearl said.

Over said McLean County Area Emergency Medical Services suspended his EMT license after the incident.

Over, 23, who worked for a year for the city's ambulance service provided through Dr. John Warner Hospital, resigned and now works in another field. He said McLean County EMS officials offered him the option of taking an exam on emergency procedures to regain his license.

The Clinton Fire Department has received calls and letters from people across the country since the Sept. 3 incident in support of Over's actions, said Pearl.

Jerry Milton, Clinton police and fire commissioner, declined to comment on Wednesday. He noted, however, that the ruling was very similar to a written response from the state shortly after the incident.


By
Oct 31, 2003, 10:32


Smurfe :D

[Chaplain]

Although it wasn't the most legal thing for him to do, maybe he thought he had a moral obligation to do something for the child.

My prayers go out to him and the family. :cry:

[hageremtp]

Thats just it, RIGHT OR WRONG, we gotta sleep at night! I do not know the full situation behind the story, nor does anyone else who was not there, but given some of what I have read, and understand, I think I may have acted in a similar manner. What it boils down to, is that sleeping at night thing!

[xtfdtwin47]

Our job is to make difficult decisions in difficult times, and I think that is exactly what he did. No one know for sure what he had to deal with on that scene unless they were there and maybe at that time, it was the best thing to do. Having a child of my own, if I knew the best thing to do was to get her to the hospital as soon as possible, I'm sure I would have done the same thing.

My heart goes out to him and the family :(

[emtp2031]

I probably would've done the same thing...knowing how long it could take sometimes to get a unit out....I've been 5th due ALS on a cardiac arrest..I had to clock out early from work in ER to take this call about 5 miles from hospital...If they want to "reprimand" this emt then at the most it should be a "dont do it again" and let it drop....if he hadn't done this the parents might not have had those few extra hours with their child....I know I'd be thanking that guy for that little extra time if it had been one of my kids...thats what matters....a parent should never have to bury a child

[WD306]

Even though it might not be "legal", I personally would rather have someone do that than waiting on scene and screaming for ALS like some of the crews here do.

While working at my hospital based ALS response service, I had a crew wait on scene 20 minutes for me to arrive at the nursing home for a chest pain/sob patient. They didn't even have a thing done on my arrival, and BTW, the receiving hospital was two blocks away. :?:

This was not a critical patient, but, IMHO there comes a time to do good BLS and go. Unfortunately, many of the service admins drum into the crew's heads "You need a medic, so we can bill the ALS rate" I have been on so many stupid calls because of this. And, as someone stated earlier in one of the threads, you should see their faces when I release the call to them BLS..... :)

/rant off