Prayers for the Pope

[hageremtp]

Hey all, I am sure everyone has heard about the Pope. As a non-catholic, I still find him a very respectable man. May we pray for him and may the good lord grant him a peaceful passing, when the time comes.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

My prayers are with Him as well as with the family of Terri Shaivo, We have so much to deal with these days, I feel as though GOD and his staff will be working over time to recieve all the prayers from all us mortals.

[EMSsquirrel]

I'm not a religious man, but I don't think anyone needed to be religious to appreciate Pope John Paul II. He had such charisma, and had such a great ability to lead. He will be missed.

- Greg

[Nate]

Sad to see the loss of a good man.


May the next one be open to changing the Catholic Church and allowing women to use birth control, remarry after being divorced by the man, and other suppressions lifted.

[Baker3634]

May he forever rest in peace... He will be missed!

[RMurphy]

Not only will Catholics miss the Pope's guidance and infinite wisdom, the World will, too. As a Catholic myself, I have to say, it was nice seeing a Pope travel and touch the lives of young, old, rich, poor, all nationalities and faiths as Pope John Paul II did. I hope they elect another Pope as "worldly" as Pope John Paul II.

I will tell you what is interesting... Terri Schiavo rec'd 46 comments in these forums, the Pope only rec'd 5.... only an observation, I'm not sure what I think about it, though.

Speaking of inspirational leaders, did we lose our Chaplain? Has anyone heard from him???

[Nate]

Sorry, I've been away from the computer for a few days. I think that the Pope did a lot for Europe (not so much the US though) through his interaction with world politics there.

I hope the new one is just as good, but I have a feeling they will pick a really old guy because it is going to be hard for the Catholic Church to find someone that will live up to the last Pope's popularity and achievements.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

I think that the new POPE needs our prayers as much as the old one. Now there are groups of doubters that question whether or not he was the right choice, and most of them aren't Catholic. :bang::flame:

[SteelMaiden]

I think that the new POPE needs our prayers as much as the old one. Now there are groups of doubters that question whether or not he was the right choice, and most of them aren't Catholic. :bang::flame:

Interesting observation, care to share some more? I'm not Catholic, and I do keep up to some extent with what the Pope does/believes, but I've never really felt it was my place to question or should I say vocally question what the Catholic Church is doing. Is this just one of those, "if they don't say what I want them to" things, or is there some real reason as you see it? Not trying to pick any fights, I just find these types of religious viewpoints interesting. Not to mention that I belong to a group in our church that takes current events and tries to place them in some sort of context with religious teachings, so I am always looking for "content" for our next class.

[celestialdaisy]

I think that the new POPE needs our prayers as much as the old one. Now there are groups of doubters that question whether or not he was the right choice, and most of them aren't Catholic. :bang::flame:

I have to agree with wellaged on this one. I forget which news station I was listening to the other night, but the reporter was cutting Pope Benedict XVI down as soon as he was elected. In different news paper articles and such, I have already, in the past few days, heard him called staunchy, arrogant, and afraid of the people. Granted I have heard more positive than negative, but it's been enough criticism to be heard. I'm not a catholic, but I believe that John Paul II was a great world leader, and that Benedict XVI could very well follow in his footsteps. People seem to have liked John Paul so much, they're looking for a twin. They seem to forget that no-one is going to act the same. Yeah, some qualities are expected, but they're not the same person, so don't try to make them act the same. Just give the guy some time to fill in his new role. He's got some big shoes to fill.

[btroutm]

I'm not surprised by the criticism Pope Benedict XVI is receiving. After all, he is considered a "hard-liner" in the Church. His conservative views, which are in line with Pope John Paul II's views (including rejection of contraception, abortion, female priests, and gay unions), are suited for the role of a transitional pope. He will continue the work of John Paul II, make his own changes, and, most importantly, keep the Church strong.

[IAMedic]

People are going to criticize the pope, that is their perogative and jobs. I, myself, believe that the pope is nothing more than a man wearing fancy white robes. But, that is my perogative. I don't see why he is called "the Holy Father". My idea of the Holy Father has a totally different meaning as I was born Missouri Synod Lutheran. Unfortunately, many of our priests believe that if you are anything but MS Lutheran, you will be condemned to hell. I don't agree with this philosophy at all and am glad that my MS Lutheran church now doesn't harp and preach about that sort of nonsense.

But, the pope is going to be criticized. Every pope is criticized. They are not immune to the antics of politicians and news organizations. Especially, since this pope has a legacy of being controversial and has made it his mission to stir things up in his homeland of Germany. The networks are looking for ratings and if one of their news anchors can stir up a little attention, then so be it.

But, yes, if you want to pray for the new Pope, by all means do that as I pray for members of my family and friends.

:soapbox: :D

[Nate]

I can't follow a church that things that brith control is bad. I can't follow a man that thinks women who are divroced can't remarry. I can't follow a church that feels that you have to confess through someone else to have God forgive you.

I'm Methodist. ;) :D

[WELLAGEDEMT]

I'm not Catholic either, but I dislike the media when they start picking apart a person and making allegations that have no base. They have a right to opinions, but to try to incite distrust in the papal beliefs is wrong. I am not trying to start any problems, it was just an observation. Just listen to the news and draw your own conclusions!!!

[celestialdaisy]

ok, not trying to nit pick or start a fight (or even get off topic too far :D ), but can someone please explain to me why catholics don't believe in birth control? Abortion and premarital sex are condemned also, but I'm sure the priests know it happens since people come in to tell them while hiding behind a little screen. (sorry, i've had a very bad experiance in a church) If premarital sex is occuring all the time, and sex results in pregnancy, but you can't kill the child (i don't personally beileve in abortion either, can you tell?), and you can't take birthcontrol to prevent becoming pregnant, then what exactly are you going to be left with? A bunch of teenyboppers that we get to transport because they're trying to cover things up (having illegal abortions, trying to induce misscarriage, even attempted suicide)? A bunch of unwed mothers people turn their backs on (i know from experience)? Is it better to allow for prevention of a life being created untill 2 people are ready to take the responsibility of raising it, or to have the life terminated once it's began? It's a vicious cylce that going to keep going as long as people are going to be having sex. Like I said, I'm not trying to start a war, I just am trying to understand someone else's views.

[RMurphy]

I would take such criticisms with a grain of salt. Pope John Paul II was criticized for traveling so much in the beginning. And having been brought up in a Catholic home, traditionally, the Pope never ever traveled. So, when Pope John Paul II started traveling, several of my older relatives (father, aunt, grandmother), were just shocked and worried about him doing so. When an assassination attempt failed, they were all like, "I knew that would happen, he needs to stay at the Vatican". Well, as it turned out, they, along with everyone else adjusted to his way of doing things and the same thing will be done with the new Pope. Most people don't adapt well to change in their church.

[RMurphy]

ok, not trying to nit pick or start a fight (or even get off topic too far :D ), but can someone please explain to me why catholics don't believe in birth control?

Here is what I was taught and the way it was interpreted to me: Holy Matrimony is a Sacrament. Sex is reserved for marriage. Birth control, as in the birth control pill, actually causes the egg to get released, then is "aborted", which is the same as an abortion. Catholics are taught to use "the Billings Method" of birth control. This method is figured by taking body temp, counting so many days before/after the woman ovulates to figure out what her lowest or highest chances of pregnancy can occur. During biblical times, sex was for reproducing and not for pleasure.

There are two types of sins in the Catholic church.. mortal sin and venial sin. Mortal sins are sins against the flesh, i.e., abortion, murder, premarital sex, which includes sex outside your marriage. Venial sins are sins that are easier to be forgiven for such as lying, not honoring thy mother and father... etc... I always referred to venial sins as little sins children will make. Certain sins can cause you to be excommunicated from your church too. It's a very complicated religion! I hope I answered your questions without going on too long.

I disagree all the way around with the church's views on birth control. One thing I don't know about is if a tubal or vasectomy is a sin??? I should look that up some time. I also disagree with the divorce and remarriage thing. You are supposed to take one wife and no more. You can attend church after being divorced and receive the sacrament of Holy Communion, but if you remarry, it's considered a sin and can no longer receive that sacrament.

[SteelMaiden]

One thing I don't know about is if a tubal or vasectomy is a sin???

Yes, it is. If your nearby Catholic run hospital is main-line conservative, they will not even allow such surgeries to be performed there.

The birth control pill thing always kind of confused me, what do they think happens to the egg every month if it is not fertilized? LOL! And where did the idea come from that in biblical times sex was ONLY for procreation? You can't tell me that people didn't enjoy it, the whole thing is that is why there were so many large families, no birth control and people having sex.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

Maybe they don't believe in birth control, but there are a lot of catholic women that seem to have headaches every day and take an "aspirin" (looks a lot like a birth control pill) to take care of the problem. This is in jest and not meant to cause controversy. :lol: A lot of them practice the rhythm method and the new age music is causing a lot of trips to the chiropractor.:lol: All people have their beliefs and we have to accept that as a way of life........

[celestialdaisy]

Maybe they don't believe in birth control, but there are a lot of catholic women that seem to have headaches every day and take an "aspirin" (looks a lot like a birth control pill) to take care of the problem. This is in jest and not meant to cause controversy. :lol: A lot of them practice the rhythm method and the new age music is causing a lot of trips to the chiropractor.:lol: All people have their beliefs and we have to accept that as a way of life........

I know some alter boys who get that "aspirin" for their girlfriends.

[celestialdaisy]

Yeah, thanks, that seemed to clear it up. I just have a problem with a church that told me my baby should die because he was concieved out of wedlock. And I was on birth control, so talk about a double whammy for them. It's just a lot easier to make sure the egg either isn't released (depo), or that it can't attatch to the walls of the uterus than to fight the whole abortion issue (which I'm totally against, but that's another story).

I love the way we jump all over the place in here. :D

[btroutm]

The Catholic Church does have extremely strict views when it comes to these issues, but they have to. It isn't just about what the Church believes is right or wrong. There are theological principles at play here, and changing them would have a profound impact on Church doctrine. If you want, I can draw up some of my past reasearch and put together a nice summary explaining the Church's position and why they can't change it, but it will take some time.

[celestialdaisy]

Please do. It might explain why they won't change some views that are today's common place and draw in some younger members instead of alienate them.

[hageremtp]

......And where did the idea come from that in biblical times sex was ONLY for procreation? You can't tell me that people didn't enjoy it, the whole thing is that is why there were so many large families, no birth control and people having sex.


Good point, heck there was even prostitution in those days, selling sex isnt done to have a family.

[Nate]

I enjoy sex, and I'll also admit that having sex before you get married probably is not the best thing. (Risk of having a child, getting an STD, and losing friends/family members because of whom you sleep with, etc...) I also understand why some people are against abortion, birthcontrol, etc...

Abortion, I don't feel that it should be used in the ways it is used. Personally if you make a mistake and havea child you should try to give it up for adoption instead of making the child suffer through 18+ years with you because you didn't want it in the first place. There are people that prefer to pay the $600 for an abortion because they "goof" or make a mistake.

I have a close friend that was raped by a man she didn't know, a man that was black and she is white. She was Catholic and seen as a "whore" because she made herself open to getting raped in their eyes. (She was raped at a local hospital while smoking a cig on her break late at night.) She had an abortion and the church about died because she did not want to go through with the birth of something that reminded her of that night every day. So I think it is needed for cases like that.

Birth control such as condoms are great IMHO. I think that everyone that does have sex should practice safe sex. My girlfriend is on birth control (IM) and we still use a condom. I'm not worried about catching something from her, but more worried that I might have gotten something from work and do not wish to pass it on to her. However, her birth control regulates her periods since she has a problem with them.

What I do not know is if the Catholic Church understands these reasons, or how many people actually fess up to using birth control, having sex before they are wed, etc...

I was Christianed Catholic, but raised Methodist after my parents divorce. I do not attend church, but I still believe in God, still follow Christ, and still consider myself to be a religious person; just not as active. Does this make me bad; I don't think so.

I think there is a fine line between being religous and being pyscho-religous.

[celestialdaisy]

ok, I'm going to go totally out on a limb here and tell you an abreiated history of my life and my views on abortion (You can all thank Nate. His last post prompted me). When I was 15 I was raped by a member of my church at a party after homecoming. It wasn't a "let's get drunk" party, it was youth group members meeting at a friends house to watch movies and pig out. The church spread it around 2 years later when I finally said something to someone other than my boyfriend and my best friend. I started having sex after that because I thought it didn't matter anymore. When I was 18 I got pregnant while on birth control. 6 weeks after I had my son his father forced me to have sex and I got pregnant again. So I am now a 21 year old single mother who is living in an abusive relationship with a man whom raped me because I can't afford to leave untill I have my certification letter in my hand and am hired by one of the ambulance services around here.

I know from experience the torture that a woman goes through in her own mind after being raped or molested. It's not up to other people to judge you for a crime that was committed against you, but they do it anyways. If a woman wants to have an abortion because of a rape, fine, just make sure she thinks it through.

If a teenager get's pregnant and has an abortion because she's not ready to have a baby, not ok. I agree with the adoption option. If she decides to have an abortion because she's afraid of the pain and the way her body's going to look, she needs to deal. (And yes, I know of people who used this reason).

If a woman has a medical reason to have an abortion (i.e. the baby isn't going to make it, it's putting her life at risk, and so on) then by all means.

Basically, it all boils down to taking responsibilty for your actions and not using a form of murder as birth control. Yeah, there are reasons that I have no problem with, but society uses it 9 times out of 10 for reasons other than those.

This is just my opinion, I'm not trying to change the way anyone feels, and I'm not condeming anyone for any choices that they've made. My best friend had an abortion when she was 15 because she couldn't tell her parents she was pregnant. I still see what that does to her every May 22.

Ok, well...my rambling and raving is done...I hope I didn't offend anyone. Just remember, it's only my opinion, you're entitled to yours.

[EMSsquirrel]

Anna,

Thanks for trusting us enough to tell us your story. You're a living example of courage.

I personally am not a fan of abortion, but I'm less of a fan of telling people how to live their own lives. Nobody, not a husband, not a boyfriend, not a parent, not a church, should have the right to force a woman to make a decision that she may have to regret for the rest of her life.

Several years ago, I got my (now ex) girlfriend pregnant (we strongly suspect, at least), and it seems that she miscarried. What's the saying, God looks after fools and children? Yeah, I fell into both categories at the time. Anywho, I still think about what this child would have been like, how it would have impacted my life and hers, how so many things would be different. Fortunately, I suppose, a power beyond our control solved the question of whether we would keep the baby or not. And as much as I wonder about this unborn child, and as great as the ramifications would have been for me, I still cannot fathom telling my girlfriend she had to have an abortion. I'm not willing, not then, not now, to be responsible for that. I'd have gladly taken responsibility for the child, or whatever other consequences arise, but I could not take responsibility and own her decisions.

- Greg

[Nate]

:o Wow that was deep, I appluad you for working to get out of the situation you are in and want you to know that you can always talk to any of us on here. Thanks for trusting us enough to open up your life.

[celestialdaisy]

You know, at this stage of the game, I can finally start talking about things. If for no other reason than to speak out for something I believe in or against. It's not because I like sharing painfull memories, but if it will help someone else then it's worth it. Thanks guys...My life hasn't been an easy one, but things are starting to look up.

[SteelMaiden]

So I am now a 21 year old single mother who is living in an abusive relationship with a man whom raped me because I can't afford to leave untill I have my certification letter in my hand and am hired by one of the ambulance services around here.

Daisy, you cannot afford to stay in an abusive relationship. I know, I've been there and I am lucky to be alive today, as are my children. There are all kinds of stinkin thinkin reasons we use to lull ourselves into staying with an abuser. I cannot afford to leave until is the # 1. There are safehouses that will take you in, and groups/grants etc., that will help you finish school. GET OUT NOW!!! While you are still alive. While your kids are still alive. I was stupid and put up with it cuz I thought my boys needed their father. Until he beat the oldest one with a length of pipe from a weight set. That opened my eyes real fast.

I don't care if you are 21, or 41, there is so much life out there. Don't waste yours for some abuser. At 21, you have so much life to live, don't waste it! And don't let any of the crap he tells you about being worthless, stupid, or whatever he uses against you allow you to take the path of least resistance. It's a game for him, the worse he makes you feel about yourself, the easier it is for him to control you. Don't stay where you are! Don't think that because he hasn't put you in the hospital, you will be ok. The day will come that you will be in the fight for your life if you don't get out of the situation you are in.

I don't want to come off as some radical man-hating b!@#h, I am not. I don't want you to think I am a meddling do gooder, cuz I'm not that either. My only interest is to hopefully help some other woman escape with her life. Children who grow up in abusive situations often become abusers themselves. Think about that, about what you could be sentencing your babies to. Sorry, for the rant. God bless you.

[Nate]

I thought think I would consider someone who beats someone else a man; more like a coward because they are unable to come to terms with their own problems.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

My prayers are still with the new Pope, but I will continue to pray for those that need it.

[celestialdaisy]

My family will help me to a point, however I can't live with them. The public housing system won't take us because they're father owes them money from 2 years ago and had my name listed on his lease. There is a homeless shelter here, but the rules involve having everyone in bed and quiet by 830. We'd be kicked out. Besides that, things are worse at the homeless shelter in the way of physical, emotional, sexual, and substance abuse. There are at any given time 4 registered sex offenders staying at the homless shelter. The Alice Paul House (a shelter for abused women and children) is full, and while they can't really turn us away, the most they could do is make sure we got to the homeless shelter. I know you're just trying to help. I have about 1 1/2 months to go and then we're leaving in the evening when he's at work.

[Nate]

Wouldn't it suck if his house just happened to burn down the night you left? Man, talk abut a bad day for him. :D

[celestialdaisy]

Yeah, especially since he sells explosives. I might just have to make sure it's a night he takes them in the house. That would be a nice big boom...

[Nate]

Wow, remind me not to make him mad. :flame:

[celestialdaisy]

ok, I'll remind you if you ever happen to be coming to PA. I don't think you need to worry when you're down in TX.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

Kinda' looks like someone got off track here too. I apologize for posting on the PRIVATE LINE.:confused:

[celestialdaisy]

LOL...sorry...I'll quit.

[WELLAGEDEMT]

No need to "quit", I just have to needle someone once in a while. ;)

[celestialdaisy]

Hey, at least it's something interesting to read. :hehe: